Comments on: Old Tools in a New World http://inside-money.org/blog/old-tools-in-a-new-world/ inside-money.org is an online journal for people interested in money and its implications. Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:06:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Letting Go Of Fear Around Money. | 7Wins.eu http://inside-money.org/blog/old-tools-in-a-new-world/#comment-83 Letting Go Of Fear Around Money. | 7Wins.eu Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:23:25 +0000 http://inside-money.org/blog/?p=63#comment-83 [...] Old Tools in a New World | Inside Money Blog [...] [...] Old Tools in a New World | Inside Money Blog [...]

]]> By: Richard Wagner http://inside-money.org/blog/old-tools-in-a-new-world/#comment-56 Richard Wagner Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:52:17 +0000 http://inside-money.org/blog/?p=63#comment-56 Gentlemen, Wonderful conversation. Indeed, a 21st century conversation about money and the money forces. Thanks for your expansiveness. Dick Wagner Gentlemen,

Wonderful conversation. Indeed, a 21st century conversation about money and the money forces. Thanks for your expansiveness.

Dick Wagner

]]> By: Mike Ryan http://inside-money.org/blog/old-tools-in-a-new-world/#comment-43 Mike Ryan Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:36:56 +0000 http://inside-money.org/blog/?p=63#comment-43 It seems the question of the day is "Why did we (i.e financial planning profession) miss this?" The answer is probably right in front of us. We weren't looking. Or we were looking in the wrong places. Its hard to see things as they really are. It is easier to rely on self manufactured concepts and abstract theoretical models. I don't think its either or. There is room for conceptual reality but not to the extent that we ignore what is right in front of us. Greed has played a big role. Fear has us in its grip. Clear assessment of where we want to take this conversation and where that conversation may lead in the form of choice and action will require strength, courage and calm reserve. I am currently pursuing study of our current money system. We know our economic models are faulty. Yet we are not questioning the foundation of our economic system. In our system money is credit. That credit is based upon a fractional reserve banking system which grants tremendous power to a narrow banking cartel. The scarcity of money forces a growth necessity in order to fund interest not created in the credit formation. Winners get richer, losers fail and wealth concentrates. The need for constant growth is testing the very fabric of our planets ability to survive. In his most recent article Dick Wagner says we may need to redefine our definitions of wealth and money. The growth consumer credit model may have run its course. As a growing evolving conscious species have we reached the point where our old concepts of money, wealth and, most importantly, our own selves are no longer adequate to, not only support the world's economic needs, but also our own deep sense of spirit and community? Is the credit consumer model really sustainable? These are challenging times. These are challenging questions. I hope others will add their voice in this all important conversation. It seems the question of the day is “Why did we (i.e financial planning profession) miss this?” The answer is probably right in front of us. We weren’t looking. Or we were looking in the wrong places.

Its hard to see things as they really are. It is easier to rely on self manufactured concepts and abstract theoretical models. I don’t think its either or. There is room for conceptual reality but not to the extent that we ignore what is right in front of us.

Greed has played a big role. Fear has us in its grip. Clear assessment of where we want to take this conversation and where that conversation may lead in the form of choice and action will require strength, courage and calm reserve.

I am currently pursuing study of our current money system. We know our economic models are faulty. Yet we are not questioning the foundation of our economic system. In our system money is credit. That credit is based upon a fractional reserve banking system which grants tremendous power to a narrow banking cartel. The scarcity of money forces a growth necessity in order to fund interest not created in the credit formation. Winners get richer, losers fail and wealth concentrates. The need for constant growth is testing the very fabric of our planets ability to survive.

In his most recent article Dick Wagner says we may need to redefine our definitions of wealth and money. The growth consumer credit model may have run its course. As a growing evolving conscious species have we reached the point where our old concepts of money, wealth and, most importantly, our own selves are no longer adequate to, not only support the world’s economic needs, but also our own deep sense of spirit and community? Is the credit consumer model really sustainable?

These are challenging times. These are challenging questions. I hope others will add their voice in this all important conversation.

]]> By: martin siesta http://inside-money.org/blog/old-tools-in-a-new-world/#comment-20 martin siesta Thu, 06 Nov 2008 14:45:36 +0000 http://inside-money.org/blog/?p=63#comment-20 Mike, I love the Irish saying about dancing! Sometimes a wicked question can also be a powerful swordcut. One that cuts right to the middle. The circle is fractured. Economics, the last bastion of Newtonian thinking is being overthrown by Quantum and Chaos theory that more accurately model natural systems in complex environments. For modern economics is based on a deterministic and grossly simplistic view of the world. That price will drive everything correctly. In America, the risks are greater because this idea that one simple element, price and hence the market will govern our society best. By the way I am not saying that the state can or should do this either. Bit, I think that the newfound view that the state can or should control directly via policy levers is just as wrong. For both ideas are really the same idea - that the man on top can control society with direct levers. The wrong idea is that we can be deterministic while living in a complex system. We are out of touch with science here. At least in science, determinism has been on the run for 100 years. In physics this idea of a neat universe with fixed relationships was severely challenged by Einstein in 1905. No one in physics questions now that most relationships in the universe are relative and effect each other in complex ways. In 1927 what was left of determinism was demolished by the Quantum work The best you can do in a Quantum world is to use probabilities - there are no certainties. But large centralized organizations like banks and governments want there to be certainties. So they ignored all the the rest of science and clung to the idea that money and prices were the key factors. People are poor - give them money. Economy is slow, drop interest rates. For many years, when the world was less connected and hence less complex, deterministic principles did work. It seems that since the 1980's, the advent of the web, the world has become so connected as to increase its social complexity beyond our comprehension. Human Society has gone through a phase shift.Fortunately for us, at exactly the same time, a new form of math, itself only possible with a PC, has emerged that can help us to understand complex environments better. Those of us that have been influenced by this new way of understanding our world, could and did see what was coming. One of the people who did see what was coming was Nassim Taleb author of The Black Swan. But what he has done is to find the geometry of complexity - which is how the natural world works. Actually he was very much influenced by Benoît B. Mandelbrot who has been working with applied theory of fractal mathematics. One of his wonderful works is The (Mis)Behavior of Markets: A Fractal View of Risk, Ruin, and Reward. It was published in 2002 but his work spans about 70 years Why did we miss this? Why did so few see what was coming and so many dismiss the warnings. Because for most of our lives determinism worked and worked well. I suspect that the root of our wrong thinking was the 2 world wars of the 20th century. Our lesson was that machine thinking - that has to be deterministic - was the winning way. But our world now is so interconnected since 1980 that it has become "Complex". We can see how complex it is as all struggle with the crisis. No single government can cope. Our only chance is to put away the dogma of determinism and to investigate how nature itself governs complex systems. It feels like a time to listen deeply, to sense and to have conversations that matter Warmly Martin Mike, I love the Irish saying about dancing! Sometimes a wicked question can also be a powerful swordcut. One that cuts right to the middle. The circle is fractured. Economics, the last bastion of Newtonian thinking is being overthrown by Quantum and Chaos theory that more accurately model natural systems in complex environments. For modern economics is based on a deterministic and grossly simplistic view of the world. That price will drive everything correctly. In America, the risks are greater because this idea that one simple element, price and hence the market will govern our society best. By the way I am not saying that the state can or should do this either.
Bit, I think that the newfound view that the state can or should control directly via policy levers is just as wrong. For both ideas are really the same idea - that the man on top can control society with direct levers. The wrong idea is that we can be deterministic while living in a complex system. We are out of touch with science here. At least in science, determinism has been on the run for 100 years. In physics this idea of a neat universe with fixed relationships was severely challenged by Einstein in 1905. No one in physics questions now that most relationships in the universe are relative and effect each other in complex ways.
In 1927 what was left of determinism was demolished by the Quantum work The best you can do in a Quantum world is to use probabilities - there are no certainties. But large centralized organizations like banks and governments want there to be certainties. So they ignored all the the rest of science and clung to the idea that money and prices were the key factors. People are poor - give them money. Economy is slow, drop interest rates.
For many years, when the world was less connected and hence less complex, deterministic principles did work. It seems that since the 1980’s, the advent of the web, the world has become so connected as to increase its social complexity beyond our comprehension. Human Society has gone through a phase shift.Fortunately for us, at exactly the same time, a new form of math, itself only possible with a PC, has emerged that can help us to understand complex environments better.
Those of us that have been influenced by this new way of understanding our world, could and did see what was coming. One of the people who did see what was coming was Nassim Taleb author of The Black Swan. But what he has done is to find the geometry of complexity - which is how the natural world works. Actually he was very much influenced by Benoît B. Mandelbrot who has been working with applied theory of fractal mathematics. One of his wonderful works is The (Mis)Behavior of Markets: A Fractal View of Risk, Ruin, and Reward. It was published in 2002 but his work spans about 70 years

Why did we miss this? Why did so few see what was coming and so many dismiss the warnings. Because for most of our lives determinism worked and worked well. I suspect that the root of our wrong thinking was the 2 world wars of the 20th century. Our lesson was that machine thinking - that has to be deterministic - was the winning way. But our world now is so interconnected since 1980 that it has become “Complex”. We can see how complex it is as all struggle with the crisis. No single government can cope.
Our only chance is to put away the dogma of determinism and to investigate how nature itself governs complex systems. It feels like a time to listen deeply, to sense and to have conversations that matter

Warmly

Martin

]]> By: Mike Ryan http://inside-money.org/blog/old-tools-in-a-new-world/#comment-18 Mike Ryan Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:03:10 +0000 http://inside-money.org/blog/?p=63#comment-18 I too am struck by the gap between the "models" we rely on in our profession and those required in the world we are entering. However expansive our self image many planners rely on asset management to pay the bills. We rely on asset models and theories that are outdated and rapidly becoming in consequential (although very dangerous to the well being of our clients). We do indeed need to expand our dialogue about wealth and money. There are no straight lines in nature. The circle may appear perfectly smooth but is fractured in the most exquisite manner. Yet we base our economic and financial models, even our entire money system, on theoretical constructs that assume realities that are non existent when viewed from an empirical observation of how the world works. I love your image of a warrior of the heart. There is an old Irish saying, "Never give a sword to a man who can not dance." We are seeing the results of the carnage that can ensue when the sword is wielded without benefit of, not only the mind, but also the deep feelings and emotion of the heart. I relish your insights. I hope others will join in this conversation. It is very important and central to not only who we are as planners but more importantly who we want to become. I too am struck by the gap between the “models” we rely on in our profession and those required in the world we are entering. However expansive our self image many planners rely on asset management to pay the bills. We rely on asset models and theories that are outdated and rapidly becoming in consequential (although very dangerous to the well being of our clients). We do indeed need to expand our dialogue about wealth and money.

There are no straight lines in nature. The circle may appear perfectly smooth but is fractured in the most exquisite manner. Yet we base our economic and financial models, even our entire money system, on theoretical constructs that assume realities that are non existent when viewed from an empirical observation of how the world works.

I love your image of a warrior of the heart. There is an old Irish saying, “Never give a sword to a man who can not dance.” We are seeing the results of the carnage that can ensue when the sword is wielded without benefit of, not only the mind, but also the deep feelings and emotion of the heart.

I relish your insights. I hope others will join in this conversation. It is very important and central to not only who we are as planners but more importantly who we want to become.

]]> By: Tom Humes http://inside-money.org/blog/old-tools-in-a-new-world/#comment-16 Tom Humes Tue, 04 Nov 2008 23:35:33 +0000 http://inside-money.org/blog/?p=63#comment-16 Nice Site layout for your blog. I am looking forward to reading more from you. Tom Humes Nice Site layout for your blog. I am looking forward to reading more from you.

Tom Humes

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